Forum of the Saxes

musicalprodigy · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 119

Can someone please explain flutter tonguing to me?

saxmaniac · Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 184

Flutter tonguing is fairly simple, although, like anything, it takes practice to perfect. You vibrate the tongue against the reed while blowing a note as if rolling the syllable.

Good Luck! Very Happy

SDSaxMan · Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Location: San Diego Ca.

What I do is put the tip of my tongue on the roof of my mouth behind the mouth piece thats also in there and make a machine gun sound like you did when you were playing cops and robbers as a kid. or pretend your speaking spanish and roll your R's . You can also hum a little to get a growl effect with your flutter. Thats how I do it anyway. In that movie "Pulp Fiction" there's a great sax song with flutter in it (The pawn shop scene) Twisted Evil

John Laughter · Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Macon, GA

The Flutter Tongue/Tone

I do not know when the flutter started. I have heard it done as early as the big band era. I feel certain that it started long before. I first became aware of it when I heard “Honky Tonk” part 2 by Bill Doggett . Clifford Scott used it in his 4th solo. And again on “Tequila” when Chuck Rio used it on the repeat of the main melody. Jr. Walker also used it in “Shotgun.” It has been performed on a more recent Top 40 hit titled “With Every Beat Of My Heart” by Taylor Dayne as played by Joel C. Peskin. Also listen to the second phrase of Bobby Keys’ solo on “Brown Sugar” by The Rolling Stones.

I would venture to say that it was probably developed by blues artist when they wanted to play a real “down and dirty” sounding solo. It really lends itself to that type of music. A combination of the growl, flutter tone and note bending will put you well on your way to playing some very suggestive sounds.

This technique gives the same effect as singing it front of a desk fan. It causes the tone to flutter by causing a separation in the airwave/tone.

I always suggest that you take the neck off the horn and learn by playing only the neck/mouthpiece then after you get the feel of it, attach it to the horn.

Before you play with the neck, see if you can make the sound that is similar to a small motorboat engine by blowing lightly and at the same time raising the tip of the tongue gently against the front portion of the roof of your mouth just behind the front teeth. Do not press the tongue into the roof. Just raise it enough to make a rapid flutter between the tip and the skin of the roof. The effect is also similar to the sound of a “cat purr.” However, there is no need to make a sound or hum anything while fluttering the tongue. If you can achieve this sound it will transfer to the m/p.

An “HEEEEEE” shape puts your tongue in a high arch and will draw the tip of your tongue away from the mouthpiece. Many players consider variations on the “EEE” vowel shape to be preferable for general tone production. Vowel shapes such as “Uhh” and “Ooooh” leave the tongue in a low position that does bad things for your airstream.

With the m/p in the mouth do the same thing as above but DO NOT TOUCH THE REED while the tongue flutters back and forth toward the roof of the mouth. The tip portion of the tongue ends up fluttering in the roof area in front of the tip of the m/p but if you touch the m/p it will stop the effect.

I hope this is enough to get you started.

Here are a few other links for the flutter tone;
http://personal.zcloud.net/timzart/fluttertongue.htm
http://www.petethomas.co.uk/saxophone-fluttertongue.html
http://www.nuoboe.com/html/fluttertongue.html
http://www.jodyjazz.com/article.interesting.improviser.html
http://www.halleonard.com/item_de...oduct&keywords=john+laughter+

CMelodyMan · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fluttet tonguing?

John Laughter · Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Macon, GA

CMelodyMan, thanks and let me know if you have any questions. I will try to help.

musicalprodigy · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 119

I tried what you guys said, and i broke my reed! Shocked

is this supposed to happen? also once my tongue hits the reed my tongue stops. how can prevent this?

John Laughter · Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Macon, GA

musicalprodigy, yes I also chipped a few reeds when I first started trying to learn this technique. Some players chip them and some do not. This happens when the tongue hits the tip of the reed. In time you will get a feel on just how close your tongue can get to the reed without touching it. Just takes some practice but it will happen. Remember to point the tip of your tongue upward toward the roof of the mouth to keep it away from the reed tip.

Altosaxophonerules · Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Posts: 130 Location: Canada

o... that's what your doing, thanks for clearing it out. Very Happy

musicalprodigy · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 119

one problem I seem to have is when the mpc is in my mouth, there isn't enough space in my mouth for my tongue to move up and down. Confused

??: How casn I flutter tongue with this?

John Laughter · Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Macon, GA

prodigy, try doing the flutter w/o using the m/p. Get a good strong sound then back to just the m/p with the neck w/o the horn attached. Also, the tongue does not go up and down. It is normally very close to the roof of the mouth and the upper side of the tongue (just behind the tip) is making the motions which indent the airstream to make the flutter sound. And you can do this with a small amount of m/p in the mouth. Again, it can take time to get the feel that works best for you.

Each of us has different physical jaw structures, tongue shapes, etc. What works for me my not work for you or the next person. Always experiment with the general process and it will eventually happen depending on your own physical structure. Some alterations may have to be done to get it to successfully work for you. There is always more than one way to approach these techniques.

musicalprodigy · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 119

Oh, I see. I seems like I sjhould just keep practicng itm, and I'll eventually get it. Cool

Thanks for the help ,guys

JAKE

Altosaxophonerules · Joined: 25 Aug 2005 Posts: 130 Location: Canada

Good luck. Cool