musicalprodigy
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Improv tipscould any 1 tell me how to start really getting good at improvisation?
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JPSaxMan
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Also learn your 12 major scales, the pentatonics of those scales, and learn the blues scales. That will help quite a bit 
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CMelodyMan
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Yeahm that'll help too. Now if you're going to learn the blues and pentatonic scales, you only have to learn one or the other, because they're the same thing.
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darby dylan
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you can learn verry well with jamey aebersold.
one thing who is great is listen a lot and sing with the cd to get some sort of a structure in your head
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JPSaxMan
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CMel,
Pentatonic scales and blues scales are NOT the same thing
In a pentatonic scale, you have 1-2-3-5-6-1...the scales lack the fourth and the seventh of each scale.
The blues scales are 1-b3-4-b7-1...they're different, so you need to learn BOTH for different settings to improvise with
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CMelodyMan
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Alright, let me rephrase this . If you learn all of the blues scales, then you don't need to learn any pentatonic scales!
Just as long as you know which pairs of scales contain the same notes as each other; you only need to learn one set of scales (either the blues scales or the pentatonic scales).
For example:The C blues scale contains the same notes as the Eb pentatonic scale.
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JPSaxMan
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CMel,
How is this possible when the blues scales lack the second, sixth, and a few other notes and the third and seventh are flatted? No...they're not the same in any comparison 
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CMelodyMan
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I'm probably the last person on Earth to talk about music theory and all that stuff, but it all checks out. For example: C Blues-C Eb F (F#) G Bb, Eb Pentatonic-Eb F (F#) G Bb C They contain the same notes,.
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JPSaxMan
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They might contain the same notes but that doesn't make them the same thing
ie:
G Pentatonic, G, A, B, D, E
C Pentatonic, C, D, E, G, A
Ok so they're not identical, but they contain most of the same notes. Does it make them the same thing? No...but do me a favor and spell out your theory like I just did so I can see what you're talking about  ??:...because now I'm curious.
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JPSaxMan
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Ok CMel, I see what you're saying.
They might be the same thing note wise, but you must use each of them in a different key and setting. If you're in Eb, you can't use the C blues scale to compensate...or even if you could it depends on the nature ??:
I'm going to have to talk to my instructor about this ??:
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reisio
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Just play - literally - play around, be inventive. You don't need a sax, either, you can just scat.
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Jacob
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| reisio wrote: | | Just play - literally - play around, be inventive. You don't need a sax, either, you can just scat. |
Yep.
If all you do is sit around shedding scales and chords, that is what your solos will sound like. To be an interesting improviser, you need to be creative. To be creative you need to experiment, PLAY your horn, noodle around. It's not wrong to do that. However, you want to balance the noodling/group playing with the shedding.
And don't just listen to saxophonists; listen to trumpeters (like Miles), guitarists, trombonists, pianists, etc... as well. Even though it isn't your instrument, it is still improvisation, which is universal. I've learned more about how to swing from pianists than from saxophonists -- really. Guys like Ellis Marsalis, Hank Jones, and Kenny Barron are a couple of the hardest swinging pianists out there (and all 3 are still alive today and playing!).
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Guest
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It's 1-b3-4-b5-5-b7-1
| JPSaxMan wrote: | CMel,
Pentatonic scales and blues scales are NOT the same thing
In a pentatonic scale, you have 1-2-3-5-6-1...the scales lack the fourth and the seventh of each scale.
The blues scales are 1-b3-4-b7-1...they're different, so you need to learn BOTH for different settings to improvise with
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JPSaxMan
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Thanx for the clarification! 
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Guest
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The best way to learn to improvise is to "lift" your favourite solos. Learn to play your favourite solos so that when you play along with the recording, it sounds like one player. Learn all the inflections. Like was said before, don't just stick with sax players though. Every instrument can add something to your jazz vocabulary you might have otherwise ignored or missed.
Jazz is a language. As such, you need to constantly be improving your vocabulary. Books such as Jerry Coker's "Patterns for Jazz" and Jerry Bergonzi's "Pentatonics" will help with that. Always try to be creative and play melodically though. It's always good to have "your" licks as well. When you come up with a line you like...learn it in all keys and keep practicing it. Michael Brecker mentioned that it would take him 6 months before something he had been working on ever made it into his solos.
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soprano-sax-girl
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Oliver Nelson's bookYou can also study Oliver Nelson's improvasation book.
It really help your improvasation and your sax technique.
A challengin book but very helpfuuuul.
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cannonball_phil
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try learning the lydian and the lydian dominant scales it better than using the blues and pentatonic scales all the time(not saying you cant use blues or the pentatonic its just when you use the same scales alot your imrovised solos can get boring)but use those and the one I've suggested or try the mixolydian and the dorian scale and for your latin and bossanova songs try the harmonic minor it sounds cool
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