Forum of the Saxes

-88- · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 26

Can anyone speak of their experience with the playing feel of vintage versus modern horns?

I recently tried a Buescher True Tone Soprano made around 1929 (may have the date wrong as I didn't check the serial) and found the side keys and the upper stack arrangement for the high D on up to be, well, ....I guess vintage. Sure was way different than my Yanagisawa, meaning my modern horn is much easier to play. I will say that Buescher True Tone had a demure sweet tone though. I do think I like the keys under the little finger to lay in a bit closer to the horn than my Yanagisawa presently does, but until I try more horns or hear from those of you who have tried other layouts, I just don't know.

Sure would like to hear from anyone who has tried out a Buescher 400 tenor, or a Martin Committee II, Couf, SML, compared to modern instruments you may have had the pleasure to experience. Tell, tell.

I don't have enough money to buy all those!

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JPSaxMan · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:25 am Post subject:

I have played a "vintage" Super Action 80 tenor and a Selmer Signet alto. The Signet was around 1940's date...or that was when it was acquired by the first owner, anyway. I loved the Signet, drove the audience wild with my solo on "Evil Ways"....and the SA80 is my director's and it's got a nice sound but man you have to work at it. It's a very choked instrument, not free blowing at all. Anything below G you can forget about trying to play it quiet. You have to blatt down there to get any type of sound!

I play on a new Selmer LaVoix tenor and I love it. I think it's asthetically a modern Serie II so all the palm keys and etc are in the place of a Serie II and I like it. Very comfortable feel and very nice rich sound. I play on a Yamaha YBS-52 and I love that bari. The keys are soo much better placed than on the old POS Bundy Selmer I was playing on...they're somewhat closer together making it feel like you're playing on a pro bari. The only difference from what I can SEE between the 52 and 62 models is engraving and a pearled G# key...yiptee doo Laughing

. As for alto's the only modern alto's I've played on is my own (Armstrong, 1990) and a few Yamaha YAS-23's. I hate my Armstrong, because anything below A is finnicky especially the low B and Bb and even C (my private instructor is having me do exercises down that low) and it's just not there. It's "honky" tonk Evil or Very Mad

. So...gonna see if I can borrow one of the school's YAS-23's for the summer Twisted Evil

. I love those horns, but I haven't played any pro horns but these horns are a dream. Play like butter IMO Cool

Well there's my experiences. So my overall comparison...I don't know, have to try some more of both for a real opinion Cool

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JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

altosaxgeek5 · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject:

Like butter??? Do you mean chilled, frozen, melted, or room temp butter? Or I can't believe it's not butter?
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Antigua Winds 520-LQ Alto Sax

JPSaxMan · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject:

You funny guy Laughing

How about...like bread and butter (at room temp on the bread) to the guy who's been on a deserted island for two decades Exclamation

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JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

JazZz · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 170

The only vintage i have ever played is my vintage 1909 tenor holton...and comparing that to my paris series III is a bit difficult, the first of which is the fact that the tenor doesn't play all that well. My tenor needs a complete repad, so no notes can really be played. One thing that is really nice about the vintage is the fact that the keys move so fluid and natural for someting that's almost 100 years old. Once I used some trumped valve oils on the springs and stuff everything freed up and felt almost comparable to my alto. The one problem everyone says about the holton is that the tone is inferior, but I found that the tone that it had when it did have all the pads was actually very nice and solid. It produced a great jazz tone that I haven't been able to get on any of my modern horns.
The one thing that is So much better on modern horns are the advancements in the key mechanisms. An example is the G#, C#, low Bb cluster of keys has a little rolling mechanism on the side that lets your thumb free up and move freely from one to the next. The next awesome thing is the fact that it is so much easier to manipulate tone on the new horns. On the old one, you have a dark tone, and it's hard to change to a light bouncy tone. On my alto, I can change from my standard dark tone, to a nice light airy bouncy sound. This could just be the fact that I am an alto player at heart, and have only just started playing tenor and have not learned enough control over my ombachure. All so, the modern instruments are nice and shiny and have nice new finishes.

-88- · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 26

JpSaxMan: Thanks for your comments. I was unaware of the Signet you experienced, as well as your arm wrestling with the Super Action 80. Also the Yamaha YAS-23. I have heard numerous positive things about the Yamaha but I have never played on.

When you commented that they 'played like butter,' I am assuming you are referring to the modern horns. Is that right?

JazZz: Much easier to manipulate tone on the newer horns. Have you played any vintage ones that match modern ease of playing? Also I had never heard of Holton. Know what you mean about the newer finishes. I saw a Kielwerth soprano that had a black finish with a silver neck. Dave Liebman was playing it. Beautiful!
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JPSaxMan · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:

Yes, I was referring to the modern Yamaha's I've played on. Cool

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JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

tenorsaxman · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 52 Location: Indiana

In my opinion some vintage horns sound great but modern horns are easier. I would especially have to say that about my YAS23.
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Doc Frazier · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject:

But you have to remember that what we call "vintage" horns were modern at one time!
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JPSaxMan · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:02 am Post subject:

I'm sure Doc can remember those "modern" times quite well too... Wink

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JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

Doc Frazier · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:51 pm Post subject:

I'm not quite that old, though some days are rougher than others Confused

My son bought a Holton bari a couple of years ago. BIG, huge sax, no neck. we took it apart to remove dents and straighten the body tube. We took some measurements and found that the entire horn was 5mm bigger I.D. than any bari we have ever worked on. So we built a neck for it (couldn't find one), repadded it and this thing will rattle the walls. What makes it really interesting is that it has all of the extra trill keys that Holton used on their top of the line horns which makes some tough passages easier.

About 1935, the forked Eb disappeared from sax bodies and believe it or not, this actully works great if it is set up correctly. Makes playing jazz alot easier.
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Bleeding_Gums_Murphy · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 75

I love the forked Eb. Too bad my Super 20 doesn't have it. The ideas the old horn manufacturers had were great ideas; pity they don't use many of them on modern saxes.

JPSaxMan · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: