Forum of the Saxes

Bariman

I was wondering why it seems most young people never play on vintage horns. Lack of information or suitable horns? Are today's youth just to obsessed with shiny lacquer?

Bariman

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JPSaxMan · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:

I don't know but some of the best players I've seen play on vintage Selmer Paris's. One kid played on a Cigar Cutter alto and the other had a Selmer VI tenor that was in the shop during our auditions.

I think it's the fact that many old horns have poor intonation (at least some VI's did) that scare off buyers; even older buyers. So...I dunno?
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Bariman · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject:

I think it's a kind of un-answerable question really. Yeah, I do see some really exceptional players on vintage horns, but the people in the high school bands shun the vintage saxes completely. Maybe it has something to do with the rough shape of the old Bundy's and such that still live in the band rooms, ie the vintage (or older in this case) horns get a bad rap.
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JPSaxMan · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject:

That could be entirely true. And honestly, I would rather have a new horn because it's mine from day one. A vintage horn is sometimes like a used sock...it's been on someone else's foot before and it don't feel right Laughing

...ok, bad example, but you get my drift Cool

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Bariman · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject:

I do, but for many, that is what is so cool about old horns. Holding something in your hands that has been around for longer than your grandparents is a cool feeling.

Bariman
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JPSaxMan · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:

True, true
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OldEyes · Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 27 Location: Cuckooland

Greetings,

I actually like the appearance of a vintage saxophone. Especially if the lacquer has dissolved! I not a big enthusiust of the lacquer finish.

Regards,

Alexander
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Bariman · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject:

Me too. I love the silver plate, especially with gold accents. I'm redoing that Buescher TT in that way and think it will look really nice. Lacquer is just too plain and ordinary.

Bariman
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acdcgraphics · Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 64 Location: California

I think the look has a lot to do with it. I speak from experience. Honestly: when I showed up to the first jazz band practice in 1986 with my brand-new, shiny Yamaha, I was a show off! So, I can't blame kids who want a beautiful horn when they open that case surrounded by their friends.

Here's the kicker, though. It's also the teachers. They recommend horns to parents and I don't imagine too many recommend vintage ones to new players. Frankly, I am not sure I would, either. It depends on the keywork, but I am thankful that my dad got me the Yamaha, at the time, it had the most user-friendly and advanced keywork of the student saxophones. Because I was able to succeed on the horn, I have continued well into my adulthood, and I know that a horn such as my other alto, the 1928 Buescher, would be tougher to handle for a young player because of some of the comparatively awkward key placement. Or my Conn tenor, with it's rather spaced-out table keys.

Long post, done now, thanks for reading

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Bariman · Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

Very true, ergonomics is a big factor.

Bariman
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Fred · Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Southeast Texas

I'm not sure I agree about ergonomics being the real issue. After all, several generations of sax players far greater than I will ever be learned on those ergonomically-challenged models and succeeded rather handily. Whatever you learn on is what seems "right" to you.

I think the rather fragile self-esteem of our young players has a lot to do with it. One kid (or one band director) makes a comment about that "old" saxophone and most kids would be ready to drop band. There is comfort in conformity at that age. I think the other students' reaction could be overcome if the band director affirmed the choice. However, in my area of the country, band directors "recommend" the line carried by the local music store and pretty much talk down alternatives. In a way you can't blame them. Parents left to their own devices might buy SSO's from ebay that are absolutely horrid - despite coming in such pretty colors!
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acdcgraphics · Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 64 Location: California

Absolutely, I agree, we must SUPPORT the kids, unless they do happen to be playing on one of the many $200 Chinese saxes on Ebay, THEN it might be acceptible to talk about getting a different horn.

Don't get me wrong, I love vintage horns, but I also have the Yamaha, and I can tell you right now, that being a woman of small stature, with fairly small hands, the Yamaha is much easier for me to work. I would hate for someone on the small side to give up because they can't get a handle on basic fingerings because of less than optimal key placement. Besides, I would not have appreciated my 1925 Conn alto OR my 1937 Zephyr Special when I was 15 years old.

Let me clarify that I absolutely would rather see a kid start on a vintage horn than these pieces of crap that are FLOODING the marketplace, and some are even carrying well-known monikers! If my son were 11 and starting out (versus 4 years old that he is) I would, in a heartbeat, hand him my 1925 Conn over a new Taiwanese or Chinese namebrand horn (I won't name names but I'm sure we've all seen the return of some beloved Vintage American brands, tarnishing their proud pro-horn past with these cheaply-made Asian knock-off student things).

I mean, for $300, I have the '25 Conn (tuner neck, rolled tone holes, etc.) and you can easily spend three times that on an inferior student horn today. And, actually, the keywork is not bad, just different.
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saxismyaxe · Joined: 07 Aug 2005 Posts: 19 Location: Dallas Tx/Murray Ky

A lot of it has to do with the "Plug and play" mind set of todays youthful students/players. I think many are under the impression that because it isn't brand spanking new, it must be inherently inferior or in need of extensive mechanical repair/maintenance to play. The misnomer being that because a horn is new out of the box, regardless of the actual quality of manufacture/design, it will perform properly and be maintenance free.

The bright and shiny new horn "eye candy" euphoria draws a lot of neophyte, would be sax payers as well, no doubt.

This is great news for this collector however. As self serving as this may sound, the fact is if the demand were any greater than it is presently, the prices would sky rocket to totally unaffordable costs for most of us.
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