Forum of the Saxes

Hiya · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 40

You know how those great jazz players have that warm sounding tone? Like someone singing almost. I think you guys know what I mean.

What I was wondering was how you achieve that sound. Is it mainly the equipment (mouthpiece) or does it come from many years of practice? If so, could you guys lead me in the right to direction? I've only been playing for a year and a half so I'm kinda clueless. So talk to me as if I'm stupid. :D

Thanks :P.

CMelodyMan · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject:

I can probably get the more experienced players over here such as CamTheCat and JP to help you out, but I'll give you some tips. If you want to sound jazzy, you have to develop the tone yourself. There is equipment however, such as jazz reeds like Rico Select Jazz reeds, and Vandoren Java reeds, and metal mouthpieces which will help you attain a jazzy tone, but it mostly comes from you. Practice, and you'll eventually get the tone that you want.
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Alto: Yanagisawa (880), Morgan 6M w/ Rico
C Melody: c.1919 Martin Inspiration
York soprano

Bleeding_Gums_Murphy · Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 75

Okay, on to achieving a warm, jazzy tone...
Step 1: Buy a nice jazz mouthpiece (Rubber definitely; metal takes a lot more chops to handle, and doesn't sound any better IMO) like an Otto Link, Meyer, Phil Barone, or Jody Jazz (links and meyers are cheaper; barones and jody's are more expensive). I've heard good things about Rico Royal Graftonite mouthpieces (very inexpensive, only like $20), but I haven't gotten a chance to try one.

Step 2: Much more important than the first step. Start setting up your embouchure in an "o" shape from now on (instead of the clarinet embouchure most students are taught to use). It'll be a bit uncomfortable at first and it will tune flat, but you'll get used to it after a while and your chops will mature.

Step 3: Here comes the tricky part; believe it or not, to get a warm sound, you have to blow warm air. Open your mouth like you're yawning, then close it over the mouthpiece in the correct embouchure, while keeping the back of your throat open. And then play away!!!

One more thing: Make sure you're using enough air. Many starting players don't use enough air and get a sort of background hiss and a wavering in their tone. On the saxophone, unlike the flute and clarinet, your goal is to blow the air straight through the mouthpiece, rather than across it.

CMelodyMan · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject:

Well said Murph. :D
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Alto: Yanagisawa (880), Morgan 6M w/ Rico
C Melody: c.1919 Martin Inspiration
York soprano

JPSaxMan · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:16 am Post subject:

Ditto as to what Murph said and my two cents...

Nothing replaces practice and time and effort. I've been practicing every day (more or less) for seven years for half an hour or more. After time you will get enough chops and start to develop a good tone like all the cats do. However, you need someone such as an instructor to guide you in the right direction towards that tonal center. Playing on a good horn helps too Cool

_________________
JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

Hiya · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 40

Thanks a bunch you guys. The information really helped! I'm gonna try it right now.

EDIT: Alright, after I tried it, I got a little confused. In the "o" embouchure, are you supposed to curl your lip in or leave it out exposed. Also, how hard are you supposed to bite down? Right now, the sound that I get is somewhat similar to my normal embouchure except it sounds a bit flat.. it kinda looks funny too lol. It looks like I'm sucking on my mouthpiece :P.

Thanks again you guys! :D

JPSaxMan · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject:

Literally form your mouth like you're saying "ooo" and put the mouthpiece on it. Lightly wrap your lips around the mouthpiece and play. You should go flat (I went sharp, must've been a goof) because the embouchure is looser than what you're used to. Your bottom lip should be cushioning the reed and not your bottom lip over the teeth. Your bottom lip might curl inwards a little bit but it won't be resting on the bottom teeth.

That's what should be going on. It will take some time to get used to and your muscles in the face might hurt a little because you're using more muscles to make that 'ooo' than you realize. Good luck! Cool

_________________
JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

Hiya · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 40

Hey guys, I've been practicing this "o" embouchure for about a day and when I play, it sounds pretty good for the first 4 seconds, then my cheecks/jaw/lips die and then farty noises escapes out of my lips! :D

Well anyways, while playing, a question also popped into my head. I was just wondering how you would achieve vibrato in this "o" embouchure. Is it just the same way in the "f" embouchure or is there a trick? Diaphragm vibrato maybe? Or do you just have to wait till your "chops" strengthen?

Edit: Sorry for so much questions by the way. Sad

JPSaxMan · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject:

It's ok Hiya, that's why this is a beginner forum. To help out.

Your muscle reaction to the embouchure was about right. I'm not sure how many years you have but from what it sounds like your chops just gave out. This used to happen to me when I had around three years experience and we'd play in band for a long period of time. This was even before I started using 'ooo'...your chops just get tired and air starts to escape etc...it's all normal.

About vibrato, as far as I've done it all I do with vibrato is tremble my lower jaw to create the effect. Therefore, you should still be able to do it with your 'ooo' embouchure. Alright?

Feel free with any more questions! Cool

_________________
JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

-88- · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 26

Hey this is great for me too. I have been worried I am doing something wrong, since I have gone from a #3 reed to a #4 and am beginning to suspect that this is not good. I may be biting too hard, though I can now play altissimo much easier. Any advice would be appreciated.

It may be that I haven't been doing the 'oooo' but pursing my lips too much. Hmmm, don't know.

Am trying BGM's clearly stated three steps and his 'oooo' embouchure for the next few days. But does this apply to soprano too?

Man, getting a good tone is not easy.

signed: clueless
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The heart plays, little else matters.

JPSaxMan · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:13 am Post subject:

LOL...yea getting a good tone takes work and effort. You should be able to apply the 'ooo' embouchure to any sax and work with it. But I do have one concern. You say you got around a year experience, right? Well I definitely wouldn't start out someone on a 3# reed. 2# maybe 2&1/2#....ok your altissimo (should be the last thing on your mind right now) might be ok but the rest of your sound will suck because you're on too hard a reed for a beginner. Scale back and your strive towards a tonal center might become easier. Cool

_________________
JP
Student of Saxophone
Music Education (BME) Major-2011
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania

-88- · Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 26

Thanks JP. When I was taking lessons, my teacher excoriated me for using a 2.5 reed and said that's why my tone sounded whimpy and told me to start using a 3.

Worse, when I try to use a 2.5 it's as if it was a cooked noodle. The sound comes out more like a fart. With the 3 I can hold long tones from soft to loud, so all this is confusing.

Maybe I should try trumpet. (okay that's a bad joke).
_________________
The heart plays, little else matters.

Hiya · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 40

If it isn't too much to ask, could someone make a recording of them self playing in the "F" embouchure and then another one of them playing in the "O" emouchure? I wanna know if the sound I'm getting is what I should be getting.

I've been practicing this embouchure for a couple of weeks and I'm still not making much progress on it... Whenever I play notes using the octive key, I tend to squeak a lot and produce sounds similar to nails on a chalkboard.

EDIT: Alright, I made some recordings of myself.

Squeaky "O" embouchure

Normal "F" embouchure